MOTORPSYCHO -- Centralstation, Darmstadt (Germany), 14.05.2006, Audience DAT - available on Etree

okey, i tried some stereo expanding tool now, and it doesn't actually do much in real stereoexpanding but it gives quite a nice bit of more brilliance. uh oh, there comes treble... :-)

I've got one little tip (i've used it on my previous works); Try putting alittle chorus on the mix. It widens the soundscape quite nicely

thanks i'll try that.

guess i need better plugins anyway. haven't got any "lmnb"'s or so.

Give me alittle time, and i'll compile alittle plugin pack for you, and upload it. You can get quite a nice amount of plugins on a 100mb zip file

The Golden Blissard Demon Wrote:

> little dispute going on about the problem with
> many versions of the same show, i don't know what
> ppl will think if you release it. Perhaps we
> should make a thread in here just for the ones of
> us who don't care about flac/mp3 discussions,
> release rules and such. And just share as we see
> fit?
>
> Wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't that be really
> really nice?

No. What would be really, really nice would be some respect
and gratitude towards the people who actually TAPE the
shows! All you do is whine about the shitty quality and
the long download time. Not a word of thanks to the taper.
Just so you know: the Darmstadt recording is GREAT. No, it's not a soundboard tape,
and it wasn't recorded, mixed and mastered by Motorpsycho's own soundman.
It's an AUDIENCE recording. Have you ever tried taping yourself? It's hard.
Tons of factor play together here: Microphone, recorder,
position, venue, stage setup, audience, etc. Let's also mention
that the equipment necessary for a good recording is quite expensive.

So all who complain about the sound quality of the Darmstadt recording
can't possibly have heard a lot of audience recordings. You should have
heard some of the MP tapes from, say, 1993. Now THERE are some truly shitty
recordings (sound-wise)! (But that doesn't really matter, since it's about the music, not the sound.)

And why remaster and at the same time have no interest in
keeping the sound quality high (killing it with MP3)
(Yeah, I know you don't care about FLAC being better (lossless)
and most people can't hear the difference blabla, but still -
MP3 does throw away a lof of the data in a wav-file. It's like
discarding several "unimportant" chapters of a book which doesn't
destroy the story, and you won't notice the difference until you
compare it to the full version, and then you see that the discarded
parts actually do add something to the experience.)

In any case, some respect for and gratitude towards the tapers would
be really, really nice. (No, I'm not a taper)

The Golden Blissard Demon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Give me alittle time, and i'll compile alittle
> plugin pack for you, and upload it. You can get
> quite a nice amount of plugins on a 100mb zip file


oh yes! very nice and cool of you. thanx a big bunch. =)

OK, i might have been a little wrong here, since i see now in another thread that you are actually discussing this with Alex and has some (somewhatt well-hidden) gratitude towards the tapers.

I didn't mean to offend/sound like an asshole.

Doctor X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, i might have been a little wrong here, since i
> see now in another thread that you are actually
> discussing this with Alex and has some (somewhatt
> well-hidden) gratitude towards the tapers.
>
> I didn't mean to offend/sound like an asshole.


Well doctor, you didn't sound like an asshole to me.
You have made your point very well and I fullheartedly agree.

And let me add, the original taper of this show is certainly
NOT amused with what all that Mr goldenblissarddemon thinks he
needed to do with this recording.

Ta!

erm... are you seriously discussing the motivations of someone who's spending tons of time to enhance the sound quality and then offers them freely to the joy of all?

I have no problem with people remastering & encoding for their OWN use/pleasure. The problem starts when the remastered/encoded versions are spread around. After a while it will be almost impossible to control which version you are downloading or getting in trades. Some people may not care too much, but for the ones who prefer the untouched versions this is very frustrating. You may risk downloading flac's that were once 128 kb/s mp3's, for instance. That's not too funny. This is also one of the reasons I suggested a MP tracker with a Q+C policy getting put up.

K

I agree, the Darmstadt recordings are great as they are, some of the best mp bootlegs so far in my eyes, all thanks to the music of course. That the recording is bad doesnt matter much to me as its great anyway when you listen with headphones, like being there. The remastered versions I think tend to have too much treble and make the quality worse in my eyes, though I know goldenblissarddeamon had some problems with it, but this goes for the Molde concert as well. I must say I agree with the above comments, remasters should be done for own pleasure as it keeps everything cleaner. As for the mp3/flac discussions, I think it is important to keep everything in the best format as long as possible. Its like with images, tiffs are better than hi-res jpgs, there is more information there and it just seems pointless to share low quality stuff when you can just as easy have the better ones.

Btw, I still hope for some more shows from the new tour - if theres anything more out there like Darmstadt!

Let me have a pint in this conversation: Where should i know download the concert? I took the first flac-one. Is there now a better version, or just the rematered Mp3 over-trebled one? There is just this one original, isn't it? I love the first one i downloaded, just because i was there a few days before. But when there is a really better one than that first.... tell me.

Thanx a loT!

PS:

Have a journey through the Haldern-Pop Homepage. This festival will be headlined by Motorpsycho. The finest line-up i've ever seen.

www.haldern-pop.de/de/festival/programm/

maybe i'm naive, but i suppose an original recording will always be available here. and if someone has an enhanced mix to offer, he or she declares it and people make their choice. i see no problem.

supernaut wrote:
erm... are you seriously discussing the motivations of someone who's spending tons of time to enhance the sound quality and then offers them freely to the joy of all?

yes of course! who give you the right these "remastered" versions to spread???
anyone has done a fantastic job and taped a mp gig worked on it and spread it to the comunity, it's the thing of the taper, damned.
and if you find it sounds shitty so don't hear this, or make your own remaster copy, but don't spread it!
btw : thanx a lot to all tapers out there :-)

holle

supernaut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maybe i'm naive, but i suppose an original
> recording will always be available here. and if
> someone has an enhanced mix to offer, he or she
> declares it and people make their choice. i see no
> problem.

Yes, that's a naive viewpoint. How can you be sure that not 50 out of 100 downloaders make their own "remasters" and start spreading them around as "enhanced mixes"? There are 100's of trackers and other places to upload stuff, and it's naive to think that everything will be spread and announced here. It's also naive to think that everyone will bother to label the stuff they upload as remastered, enhanced, encoded or whatever.

K

I get your points, and have decided to pull the plug on all future remastering efforts. That is, i'll always be making my own shows. as i think the quality of these recordings in general are just crap! But seeing that more and more ppl disapprove with what i'm doing, i no longer find any joy in doing it. So alex, if you're reading this; Disregard our previous plans, or find someone else. I quit!

Dammit! People...what's going on with you, this is just music, no religion. Why do you make such a show with that... ?

I highly appreciate GBD's work and I think that 90% of all people do the same thing. But now you made him angry with this discussion...

If I taped a concert, I would be grateful if somebody with porfessional tools would improve the sound quality.

What's better? A recording in flac format but with a sound not that good, or a remastered MP3 version with much higher sound quality? TO MY MIND it's the MP3 version....

to motorpsychodelic:

respect, no religion!
why is it so hard for you to respect tapers opinion?
they don't want this thing!
i'm not a taper, but i read a lot of statements from them
and all statesment was very disapointed about remastering & mp3 trade.
please respect this

holle

Doctor X Wrote:

>
> And why remaster and at the same time have no
> interest in
> keeping the sound quality high (killing it with
> MP3)
> (Yeah, I know you don't care about FLAC being
> better (lossless)
> and most people can't hear the difference blabla,
> but still -
> MP3 does throw away a lof of the data in a
> wav-file. It's like
> discarding several "unimportant" chapters of a
> book which doesn't
> destroy the story, and you won't notice the
> difference until you
> compare it to the full version, and then you see
> that the discarded
> parts actually do add something to the
> experience.)
>

I think that this comparison is outright ridiculous. As you are writing yourself. Most people can't hear the difference between mp3 and flac, so for them (and i think that refers to about 95% of the people) it's a purely academic question that technically there is some data missing in an mp3.

I have heard a lot of remastered recordings (remastered versions are offered on Dime and such quite regulary) and usually they sounded much better than the originals. How can that be disresepctful to the taper? Without his work there wouldn't be any material to remaster at all. So his input is still the most important one.

It's also a logical contradiction to say: "It's the music that counts, so be happy with a shitty sounding recording, BUT DON'T convert it to mp3 because you mess up the music". Completely absurd.

So i was right all along. I was stepping on some taper code of honor after all. It's rather sad to witness what's happening here now. Me and motorpsychodelic are truly on the same page here; What's the big deal? It's just music! Ofcourse i respect the tapers for recording the shows that they do. I just don't seem to understand this urge to "keep it real". If the quality was good, then i would agree, but having listened to several taped shows these last weeks, i must say that most of them sound rather bad. So what's the harm in trying to make them sound better? After all, it's the general listener who will benefit from this in the end. And isn't that who we're trying to please? Both the tapers and the mixers?

Also, as i've said before; It was never about fame and fortune. I couldn't care less about that. Nevertheless i spent several hours trying to spice up that recording, just as the taper did recodring the stuff (I thanked the taper on that Darmstadt upgrade, tho i didn't know who it was, so obviously i couldn't write a name + i labeled the rar files "Remastered by GBD" so there wouldn't be any misunderstanding). But all i get is harsh words about this and that. Shitty work, wrong format, bad labeling etc etc. In short; You rule riders have taken all the fun out of this, and so i've decided to hang it up. Don't wanna be the cause of tapers deciding not to release stuff in the future!

BTW right on BE!!





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2006 04:11PM by The Golden Blissard Demon.