Camp Motorpsycho » General

Short interview with Bent for laut.de

(288 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by suntripper
  • Latest reply from bionaut

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  1. the conscience
    Member

    I love diversity, but sometimes I wish there were more psychonauts like you, suntripper

    Posted 3 months ago #
  2. Johnny_Heartfield
    Member

    The mentioning of Harari makes me break my vow never to post in this thread again. I like Harari's books very much, though I do not adore him like some people do. This quote here obviously concerns the maniulation of the human genetic code as a more or less likely "human optimizing" method in the near (or not so near) future. I'm very much with Harari here - seing not only the massive dangers but also the ethical problems arising.

    But wtf has this to do with Klaus Schwab of WEF or any "Great Reset?" I must admit I have not watched the rest of the video due to my preocuppations with the Great Reset terminology, combined with the mentioning of Schwab - a likely indication of the usual half-witted mixing of topics into stinking conspiracy mess. If I'm rightly informed Schwab strives to bring about social changes by means of economical measures, achieved by bringing major financial and technical players together and developing action plans.
    This may or may not have more or less desastrous effects according to the hybris of any greater socio-economic planning, whatever benign the original motives may be. And I do not doubt Schwab really wants to do something for the better, contrary to the abounding portrait of him as an evil puppet player and master of evil. I do not want to enter into deeper discussion here - all I want is to point out that Harari's topic is something almost completely different - the only common thing is socio-cultural change, but that's a wide field. Bringing together quite disparate topics and citing out of context leads most certainly to the fuzzy logic that's behind most of the Great Reset paranoia. Here be monsters!

    Posted 3 months ago #
  3. the conscience
    Member

    Here Be Monsters (vol.2 /a-side) is about 15 minutes, too. Have you ever heard it complete or judged after a few seconds? I think this (Comedy) video is a good intro and small summery of TGR, but maybe you need an attention span of an analog psychonaut to understand and feel sceptical:)

    Posted 3 months ago #
  4. Johnny_Heartfield
    Member

    Yes.And Yes. Monsters 2 and analog attention span. Monsters 2 not often though. N.O.X. more often recently - complete of course.
    As I said - I cannot and didn't want to comment or judge the video itself - just was triggered by the combination of the "Great Reset" terminology and the Harari quote - something that gives me the creeps. But maybe you are right - I was involved in so many arguments concerning "Reset", Klaus Schwab (the name alone is a par anoia trigger for some people!) and pandemic stuff, that I do react impulsively on trigger words myself in the meantime. Probably we're not being reset or genetically altered at present, but all become just old fashioned Pavlov's dogs

    Posted 3 months ago #
  5. the conscience
    Member

    @ Johnny: Yes NOX is real good training for the attention span!

    "just was triggered by the combination of the "Great Reset" terminology and the Harari quote"

    The quote was part of a speech at The World Economic Forum, so it belongs together in some way.

    "And I do not doubt Schwab really wants to do something for the better, contrary to the abounding portrait of him as an evil puppet player and master of evil."

    Because I also think, nobody is really (only) evil, you are maybe right in this case. It´s great, that they will use their power to make a better world and better humans in the future. But I know hundreds or maybe billions of other people, who have better ideas. (but less money).

    What is so good about living longer and stronger. For some other people, the sense of life is more in the depth, than in lenght.

    I like, that you have mentionend in some of your posts (if I remember right), that not every conspiracy theory will become reality. And I hope, The Great Reset will not happen in the way, Schwab and some others want. But I think, it is important, that some things are not only "stinking conspiracy mess". Like suntripper mentioned, "We have to take them by their words"

    It´s more than black and white. I only would like, that some people would be better informed, but I am also aware, that this is very hard or nearly impossible. Today in the morning I tried to learn more about Harari. I liked some of his thoughts, some not. You can also say, all that he wrote about the past and the future is conspiracy theory. It´s only the opinion, of one single guy and his scources. I personally prefer some older philosophs and scientists. So, maybe you would like to say, read more, read that or this. And I would say, look for the JP Sears video of TGR with German subtitles, if it´s easier. Or begin with Event201 Pandemic Exercise (link below). I only want to show, that it´s all there, and it´s up to you, if you want to feel sceptical or not.

    In some way, I´m pretty sure, we are thinking the same: Listening to good music is much better, than wasting time, by informing about all the weird stuff. (But it isn´t easy while living in dangerous times)

    But as long, as I believe, some people don´t know about it, I have the urge to show them, so they can choose themselves, what they like to think about it...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm1-DnxRiPM

    Posted 3 months ago #
  6. the conscience
    Member

    After seeing more (new) videos of Harari (about the war), my intuition says, it has no good feelings about this guy

    Posted 3 months ago #
  7. Johnny_Heartfield
    Member

    @ the conscience: I can only recommend Harari's "Short history of mankind" ("Eine kurze Geschichte der Menschheit") which is the book that founded his reputation and is probably on of the best works on the development of mankind via various biological (natural), psychological, technical and cognitive revolutions.
    "Homo Deus" - the book that made him successful all over the world, is more special (human enhancement or replacement by "intelligent" technology and its effects on humankind). I do sometimes have problems with this one - while reading I often had the impression Harari is one of these "flatland" thinkers here that totally deny spiritual or cultural values and resort to pure materialism and technology. Gladly that impression is reversed in the end when Harari finishes his bleak outlook on human future with an excourse on spirituality and meditation.
    It is always difficult to judge people in the light of single voicings in the media - even clever people tend to say some stupid things under full medial attention assault.

    As for conspiracy theories: I tend to avoid them in the meantime because I found it is quite useless to discuss with most of the "believers". It used to be fun to play with the sheer absurdity of some of them to show a) the stubbornness of their disciples and the intellectual primitivity of some alledgedly "spiritual" theories and b) the alledgedly alternativeless "reality" as equally stupid and full of manipulation. Conspiracy Robert Anton Wilston style. But maybe the abounding of some of these theories even helps to avoid the becoming real of their topics (total control by evil powers and power persons) - so let them be. Fighting an information war against conspiracists is not only hopeless, but also tends to bring you in the same position. You become what you fight.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  8. suntripper
    Member

    @the conscience: The feeling is mutual.

    @Thomas & @grindove: Of course I don't hold Bent responsible for these things. I have, more than once, expressed my sympathy for him and for anyone in his position. The fact remains, however, that he is not simply an average citizen, but one who influences the way others see the world. I think he is probably very astute. Many on this forum are also probably very astute. All that is lacking, maybe, is accurate information. Decisions being taken are, perhaps, not fully informed decisions, and, since that is the case, I believe, by design, I'm not sure how much blame I can attach to anybody who is making such decisions in good faith, as I believe most are. Their decent nature has been exploited.

    And, yes, because all of us here, I suspect, are not particularly bad people - are not capable of doing really bad things - it is difficult to conceive that there are people out there who are made quite differently and who really do have that in them, and, unfortunately, in our world, those are the ones who seek, and find, positions of power.

    So all I'm really trying to say to Bent (and, of course, I'm not only appealing to Bent here) is - with love and respect - you're not looking closely enough; have a closer look. The stakes are really high.

    @Johnny: I know very little of Harari and so I am in no position to impute any dark motive on his part, although I would like to know how he feels, exactly, about, for example, what he refers to as surveillance under the skin - something that is now with us. What is apparent is that he is highly intelligent and well informed. What I do believe is that the sorts of developments he outlines are the desired outcomes for Schwab and the rest, amd that they are already well under way.

    You, however, do seem to impute a pure motive to Schwab. I wonder upon what basis you have reached that conclusion?

    The thing about the "half-witted mixing of topics" and "bringing together quite disparate topics" is that the protagonists have their fingers in all these seemingly disconnected pies. Why? It always comes back to the desire for control, playing God and the centuries-old aim of a single global government (and, yes, the average person will probably find that notion ludicrous, because the average person is not in possession of the information, and, if it is given to him, he will probably remain incredulous).

    How far can one impute an evil motive to the likes of Schwab? One could argue that he really does, in his own way, wish to make the world a better place. The aims written on the Georgia Guidestones could be seen as lofty and laudable (if you don't enquire too closely, for instance, into exactly how the population will be reduced to less than 500,000,000).

    At the risk of being accused of doing a Godwin, can I point out that the Nazis really believed that, in exterminating Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, etc., they were undertaking a difficult but noble act for the benefit of humanity? So, were they evil? Certainly, if you choose to play God, you are playing a very dangerous game. Perhaps the arrogance of Man leads him to be blind to truth.

    "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

    I hope I am not 'half-witted', Johnny. I question myself all the time. This stuff is weird s@%t, but it's not my weird s@%t. It's the likes of Schwab who are bringing the weird s@%t.

    Event 201, as referred to by the conscience, ought to be a major clue.

    Why on earth would you trust any folk who set themselves up as the rulers of the world?

    Posted 3 months ago #
  9. the conscience
    Member

    @ Johnny: yesterday I watched 3hours this Video about „eine kurze Geschichte...“

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NRrwZe7P34c

    I can understand why the book was a success but I prefer when people think by themselves instead to study what other people think before. „Romaniac‘s Monster“ by the psychonaut Radio Romaniac is also a „Short Story of Mankind“ and much more interesting and funny. It shows that some psychonauts can think by themselves and some psychonauts need other persons to think for them,

    Again: What I try to show you are not conspiracy theories but facts. But maybe you need some time to leave the Harari level

    Posted 3 months ago #
  10. Johnny_Heartfield
    Member

    @ the conscience: I find your reply rather insulting. You imply I do not think for myself because I read and like other people's books? What makes you assume that I do not have my own opinion on everything I read? Have I not just voiced my own concerns with some of Harari's thoughts? You obviously just see what you want to see. I prefer to place my verdict on intelligent people rather than on "facts" that may just be the opinions or even open lies of some idiots or even rabid fanatics, liers or whatever in the so called "social media". What makes you sure your "facts" are not just that? Man, your last post is fucking hypocritical at least, let me tell you that!

    Posted 3 months ago #
  11. the conscience
    Member

    Today is maybe one of the saddest days in german history because the dabate about a compulsory vaccination is going to start.

    @ Johnny: In Germany we say: Getroffene Hunde bellen.(hittened dogs bark) Just a joke.

    Sorry, my English is not the best and it’s very stressful to write on a mobile and try to say in short time what I think. Of cause you (and Harari) seem to be very intelligent, I do not daubt,

    In case of making the same mistake again: (don’t take it personally) Some people here are so full of wisdom, studied so much and are so intelligent that they have no time to see the easiest (most simply) things. And maybe this is the main problem these times. What is so difficult for example to have a look in the video description of Event201 to see it’s official and not just fantasy?!

    A long time ago Tim Foyle wrote „On the psychology of the conspiracy-denier“. Maybe I should read it again to understand some other people. Or hear it in german:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qEu0qQL-AtI

    I like you,Johnny. I don’t wanted to be rude, but in my thinking. these are very dangerous times and it’s up to us all how our future will be.Even if the most psychonauts seem to do not care, Fuck, I‘m wasting my time....

    Posted 3 months ago #
  12. TraktorBass
    Member

    the conscience:

    .. Fuck, I‘m wasting my time....

    10 pages it took you to realize that..

    Posted 3 months ago #
  13. the conscience
    Member

    @ TraktorBass: It's˜s not my personality to give up fast and stop believing that there could be a better world

    Posted 3 months ago #
  14. the conscience
    Member

    It looks like the great reset has been started and hacked (not only) my posts

    Posted 3 months ago #
  15. the conscience
    Member

    edited, because it was only a personal info

    Posted 3 months ago #
  16. bionaut
    Member

    This is a fascinating thread. I read forward for the first three pages. Now, I realize I need to read it backward. I have a few initial comments.

    One, I def think this is a fine thread for the forum. If you don't wanna read it, then don't. No prob.

    Two, I think Bent was just expressing honesty. What's wrong with that? He's probably frustrated about his life being disrupted by COVID. As for the Trump and alt-right part, well, more honesty. I am sure he's not being literal in his statement. Just listen to the lyrics of records since Trump was elected. He's engaged. Frankly, I am shocked to hear people who have probably followed Bent for decades be dismissive of his thinking so quickly. That is fucked up!

    Three, a shout out to the horseshoe crabs. Here in the New World, June 24 is Horseshoe Crab Appreciation Day.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  17. bionaut
    Member

    OK, follow up on my post from an hour ago. I tried reading backward, and that was worse. This whole thread makes no sense. It is not a good idea for this community to tear itself apart. It's Hogwash.

    I tried to make sense of anyone's argument, and I really can't do it. The bottom line is that the human being is now engaged in the world's first
    clinical trial on this scale. We will learn a lot from this experiment. I suppose one could make the interesting point that in this trial, people are allowed to choose the placebo.

    If someone referenced an actual peer-reviewed paper in this ten-page thread, please let me know. I am not interested in opinion pieces.

    So far, the scientific community appears to be doing an excellent job of sorting this out. It takes time for the process. If you have chosen the vaccination route, good for you. If you have chosen the non-vaccination route, good for you. Together, we will discover the answer.

    Posted 1 month ago #

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