...hanging on to the trip you're on since 1994
dongonz
Member
Hey friends,
i wrote it already in the Bielefeld Topic, i have huge problems with dime and a even bigger need for MP Bootlegs ^^ I don't know about others, how you manage to run Dime. For me the whole Torrent thing gives me the creeps. Still i am sure that there are many people here who'd love to get there hands on good bootlegs.
I want to discuss with you the possibility to find another way to share
Would be sooooo nice!
otherdemon
Member
Hi
There is a private MP torrent site called Motortrades. Most of the stuff that's on Dime, can be
found there too: http://motortrades.org/index.php
Not sure if you need an invite to join.
The Other Anders
Member
But where is the administrator of Motortrades? How long since we last were able to add new members?
I know Juergen is doing his best to keep the tracker alive, and now that I have found qBittorrent I am back on and seeding when I can, and a few more do too, but I haven't seen new members in a long time.
Johnny_Heartfield
Member
From my experience Motortrades is too small a community to operate on classic trading mode - for instance upload/download quota. Too keep alive you need a regular influx of new members or at least a large number of permanent seeders and leechers. That can hardly achieved by a trading forum dedicated to one band only. Once you've grabbed everything you can get (sorry, but people are motorgreedy 
), the thing is dead. And when a community dies or is only rarely visited, administrators lose interest. This is usually the end. Insofar Motortrades has valiantly fought against that trend for a long time, but I think it is long overdue to revert to DIME, like it or not.
dongonz
Member
hm... what about a cloud? would this be suitable in any way? or maybe some remark in the database like who made the recording of a certain gig. so others would know whom to ask for a wetransfer or sth
Phoots Flower
Member
Telegram private / open group?
Files up to 2 gigabytes can be uploaded.
OliverGolombeck
Member
Hello,
I also have problems with DIME.
That's why I only download MOTORPSYCHO concerts there (also because of the ratio).
But why do I never find MOTORPSYCHO concerts on "Traders Den"?
(I have a very good ratio there.)
Or "archive.org" would also be a good idea, like Øresund Space Collective does.
https://archive.org/details/OresundSpaceCollective?sort=-addeddate
or
Godspeed You Black Emperor!
https://archive.org/details/GodspeedYouBlackEmperor
offer?
Greetings
OliG
dongonz
Member
the thing with the Archive is also interesting. (as well as the two Bands you mentioned. seen them both, great Bands!!)
The question here is, whether the people who recorded the stuff is willing to upload them. guess it is a lot of work to do this.
personally i dream of finding the best live version of all the songs (i know... this already seems impossible ^^) and make a 'live' Discografie out of them. Means, f.e. Trust Us Live which would contain the best versions of each Trust Us Song. Actually i am listening more to the bootlegs lately then to their official records since they are at some places much more exciting ^^
mister conclusion
Member
I also think that something like archive.org would be great. Especially when there is a possibility to rank the recordings by e.g. the sound quality. The qulity of the older recordings varies from barely listenable to just great. The communitiy could help to figure out the outstanding ones.
My own collection (big but not complete) is about 320 GB already, so there is some storage space required.
Does anybody know how much something like that would cost and if there would be any legal issues to be considered?
Blashyrkh
Member
I really like to idea to upload everything on archive.org This way we could link it to mpdb.space
@mister conclusion: I don't see any pricing on archive and there is no upload limit. The band approved the recordings show, so I guess there won't be any legal issues.
Johnny_Heartfield
Member
As I am sceptical about any other platform with ratio regulations (everyone prefers the service s/he's got the best ration on) I find the archive.org idea intriguing. Not least because archive.org once started hosting all those Dead recordings.
That would need a little organisation though. I would like to start a test upload, but that would of course involve the o.k. of the original taper/DIME uploader. Besides we should probably get the OK from Motorpsycho management to create a MP live collection on archive org.
Once there are at least 50 different uploads in the Live Music Archive on archive.org, you can ask them to create a collection. Besides for uploads you have to stick to certain naming standards. You need a 2 letter band abbreviation (MP is still not being used, I've checked that), then the description should be like this:
https://archive.org/create.php?lma=1
Probably there could be an agreement with all those tapers and uploaders on DIME, Motortrades etc. that concerts are uploaded on archive.org only after a certain amount of first publication on said platforms (probably 4-6 weeks?).
I think the upload itself is not problematic - once these points have been agreed upon everyone with a free archive.org account can upload his or others MP recordings (taper's agreement provided of course). Probably we might need some kind of administrator for the Live Music Archive Collection, once it has been registered, but that should not be a problem.
It would be great to have a (completist) MP live collection on archive.org - so please do comment on this idea (tapers especially)!
btw: archive.org is certainly the platform of choice. telegram can go to hell as far as I'm concerned...
TraktorBass
Member
Relisten is another cool platform for live recordings. Even comes in app form, so you can stream.
Johnny_Heartfield
Member
I think it is most important to agree to one platform first, or we're were we started first. Relisten is probably good for streaming, but streaming is ecologically unsound and bad four your soul (Church of Heartfield, pope according to R.A. Wilson). I would prefer a stable platform where both listening and downloading are equally easy, and this seems to be the case with archive.org. If somebody additionally wants to feed relisten, no problem, as these platforms obviously have an agreement.
TAF
Member
Using archive.org is a good idea - however! - in order to be fully searchable, all tracks should have song titles in the file names AND in the ID3 tags. This is not the case with the vast majority of recordings in circulation today and will require a lot of work. Otherwise the archive would be impossible to navigate.
bionaut
Member
I am in favor of Archive.org as a long-term solution. If it's good enough for the Dead community, then I think that's enough said.
I download a shit-ton of music from Dime. The ratio issue is not relevant to me, but I understand that it is for many people. Dime is great, but it's kind of hard to weed through the latest Helios Creed flood, or whatever it might be, to focus on what you want to grab.
It would not be a bad thing for MP music to be properly tagged. Yes, it's a lot of work. I tag every show myself, and it takes time, but I just get into it. I am happy to engage w this project if help is wanted or needed.
At the end of the day, any BitTorrent solution relies on at least one person keeping a show alive for the future. I run a seedbox 24/7, and I hope to do so for another forty years. Hopefully, there will be others. With Archive.org functioning as the repository, I think there's a better chance of expanding the community into the future.
Blashyrkh
Member
I think archive.org would be a great idea. Just today my server at home crashed and I've lost all my recordings 
I hope I can recover some of it.
bionaut
Member
I just checked. I have tagged just under 6400 MP songs to this point. All of those tagged files are live shows. The job is not impossible w a good tool and a good workflow.
If the community decided to do this, then it would be a good practice to define a 'schema', which just means all files get tagged according to the same protocol (which info in which field). A good tagging software provides tools for batch processes including operations like transfer, append, etc. to make the project less oppressive.
dongonz
Member
sooo.. are we doing this or what? how can i help. my time is somewhat limited lately since i am in the middl of my tesis but if i can help, just tell me
The Other Anders
Member
Back in the day the band allowed me/us to tape under the provision that we share the recordings in the family only.
20 years ago the band didn't want the live recordings spread publicly on the internet. This was also, if I remeber it correctly, one of the motivations behind Motortrades, an invitation only platform. Admittedly it does not work as intended, as we have not been able to add new members for quite some years, plus maybe torrents have lost popularity to newer, simpler ways of sharing music.
I don't know how public DIME is considered, but I felt the promise to the band was broken already back when the recordings were shared there. Mind you, I don't mind my recordings shared. I think the more people to get to hear the band the better. But this is not about my conviction, it's about respecting the wish of the band.
So I think we should ask them if they would mind us going ahead with the archives.org solution.
As the last tour showed, they do not have the same draw as before, a trend that started some time ago. They need to rethink their approach.
Engaging the core fan base and facilitating viral interaction are clearly the best tools in the tool box 20 years on.
Johnny_Heartfield
Member
Exactly. Is there somebody with connections to or known by Motorpsycho management who could put forth the proposition? (petition the lords with prayer? - not quite )
Be
Member
+1 for archive.org
My Dime account just vanished and now my ratio is gone, too.
Due to a somewhat difficult wifi with different repeater setup at home and I can not upload properly on dime and so on.
Would be willing to help with tagging e.g.
bionaut
Member
Thank you for the history. I think honoring the intention of the original commitment is important, and it sounds like it is time to get input from the band.
Some thoughts...
I wonder if Motortrades can be enlivened with some additional community engagement.
I wonder if the band has an interest in exploring paid downloads like some other bands have done. Gov't Mule, for example. Maybe they have already worked out that the economics will not work. Maybe they do not want to go down that road for other reasons. Also, I have no idea what they have in their archive. I assume they have some number of shows they recorded that could be released as downloads.
In any case, it seems unwise to move forward on any project without a blessing from the band.
dongonz
Member
sure, i totally agree. i thougt it was said already that we ask for permission from the band. Wouldn't do it without it.
If there is nobody with a direct land line to the bands badrooms i would write to the management. if you want, i will post my email before sending for further suggestions.
The Other Anders
Member
I have no direct line, I just say hi on the road. I imagine there must be someone here closer to the band than I am.
ThorEgil
Member
Wonder what Bent will say about Archive.org when he discover that their studio albums are available for free download there. I suppose that is in breach of all copyright laws, and I can't imagine that will count as a plus.
dongonz
Member
who is talkin bout studio albums. we are talking live tapes
ringo
Member
TAF
Member
Looks like the albums are available with 30 second samples only, which 1) might be legal, and 2) is utterly pointless.
Punj Lizard
Member
Personally I'd be more than happy to pay for official bootlegs (so to speak), if the band decided to start releasing them, either via a monthly subscription or on a recording-by-recording basis. But some kind of easily accessible database/archive of live recordings would be brilliant.
[POST EDITED as my first comment was already proven incorrect.]
ringo
Member
@TAF This seems to be true for most of them, but for KoO and TAIO full MP3 versions are indeed downloadable.
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