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By "excessive artistry" I do not mean musical adventure and indulging in full-on jamming – I'm a Deadhead, by all means. As long as the joy of playing reigns over the effort of amassing complicated chord structures for the sake of itself I'm always with the musical adventurers.
So I don't see MP falling into the described progrock trap on "The Tower" – but that's only my humble perception
Having pointed out that, I think one could see DDU as the perfect – if probably unconscious – self-perception of MP as a band – first naive and adventurous, then facing various dangers of sea-(or craft-)manship, but somehow surviving that maelstrom and always aware of the various sea-monsters of the deep – and remaining a unique mythic beast (unicorn). With lots of humour left, as the Unicorn tour programme and poster proved.
@Johnny_Heartfield I’m SO with you in all this. I agree 100% in all above so no need to add anything. About the other bands, about MP, about the Kenneth years. About DDU. This is why I trust them. Spot on.
:STG:
Why not amassing complicated chord structures for the sake of itself? Where's the harm? And does it (and if so, how?) stand in the way of an emotional impact? I'd say it doesn't.
There's highly complex music by Tool which moves me, and there's the same kind by Dream Theater which bores the hell out of me. Rush fall inbetween those two for me.
Through The Veil, Mutiny and Ship Of Fools are madly complicated and get me emotionally. Just as The Nerve Tattoo or Starmelt do. I think it's the attitude and the panache in the playing, not the composition. Meaning MP probably could turn a sterile Dream Theater song into a bodyshaking tearjerker just by playing it without any rearranging at all.
Probably I should have said abstract chord structures instead? But even that's not the point – cause some abstract structures really get me, if they're not too complicated (Crimson, German progressive/post-rock band "Couch"). So what causes the sterility? Merely (lack of) attitude, as supernaut said? Surely that plays a major role, but is it all? I do not have any answers here. Just wondering.
Certainly highly technical music has its admirers – like there's people who constantly turn every screw and bolt of their cars and know every detail of their engine. I prefer driving though (to remain within the metaphor) – or getting a ride next to the driver, with lots of fun, good sights and sounds and so on. People are certainly different.
"Spanish lady comes to me, she lays on me this rose.
It rainbow spirals round and round it trembles and explodes.
It left a smoking crater of my mind I like to blow away.
But the heat came 'round and busted me for smiling on a cloudy day.
Skippin' through the lily fields I came across an empty space,
It trembled and exploded, left a bus stop in it's place.
The bus came by and I got on, that's when it all began,
There was cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to never ever land."
Not to turn too metaphysical, but I think it was Shakti that somewhere else in this forum said that The Tower has the Neil Young-coined term “the Spook†which I believe is Neil’s definition (and a better, more spiritual one) of the mysterious “it†(correct me if I’m wrong). And MP have the Spook in excess, like you’re all saying. They feel *it* and channel *it*. And it goes beyond excellence at playing, it must be about how it resonates. In us. Whatever melodies, abstract or just a simple chord change. Something very human, aggressive, emotional, I dunno, but *something* all great artist possess, where shit just glimmers in their hands and renditions. And in their compositions of course, no matter how complicated chord structures they have. A vibe.
A heaviness. A resonance. Something beyond attitude and approach. And in my eyes Rush and Yes etc don’t have the Spook (not many musicians painters writers do), even though they are great (at times;) But Bent and Snah do.
Also, the Apollo Dionysus dichotomy, the rational vs the instinctive (both are sons of the same father, after all). And MP have Dionysian virtues written all over them (ref Paglia) as that whole wave of (good) 80s/90s alternative bands had, like all good bands from any period had (in my eyes), not a lot of “male†bravado, not a lot of posing, but tons of emotions. Rush doesn’t.
That said, not everything MP touches has the Spook, we’re all mortals, thank God. And ALL that said, this is highly subjective of course. And perhaps a simplification of something very abstract, or making something simple very abstract, art is mysterious after all, though it’s an attempt.
But I’m w Neil.
I totally agree with what you all are saying about MP. For me there's no question about them being extraordinary, exceptional, having "the Spook" or whatever you want to call it. But given the legions of Yes fans (myself included) who have experienced ecstatic bliss during And You and I or Awaken or felt rapture during a Steve Howe solo during the culminating passage of Siberian Khatru, or a Howe/Wakeman solo-off during the final jam section of Roundabout or Starship Trooper, I would beg to differ that they don't bring the feels. Just because you don't feel it, doesn't mean it isn't there. If it wasn't there, thousands of people wouldn't have gone to their gigs.
The same goes for any artist. Believe it or not, there are lots of people out there who are left cold by the Grateful Dead's directionless noodling, or Kraftwerk's mechanical dirge, or Captain Beefheart's cacophanous noise. I do understand what you're saying about Yes and Rush (I could say the same about Dream Theater), but the feelings, the emotions we experience when we listen to music (whether it's the Dead's beautifully adventurous exploration of the space, Kraftwerk's funky drive, or Beefheart's dark night of the soul) is surely a much more subjective matter.
There are even those who are left cold or even appalled by Motorpsycho's eclectic approach to rock music! Quite a few of my old friends have difficulty getting close to a musical phenomenon that combines beloved characteristics of Рlet's say Sabbath and Yes, Moțrhead and Grateful Dead.
And yes, music is a highly subjective thing – but still I'd always like to find some objective reasons why I like or don't like stuff – what makes me tick, what sends me into what direction. And especially what attitude is behind the music is quite important for me – not ideologically, but it seems to influence my way of digesting in some esoteric way.
And yes – I was even moved by Yes sometimes. For me it was in most cases the ectstatic and somewhat kitschy Anderson melodies that conclude long stretches of noodling close to the edge of insane instrumental delirium. And you and I! But somehow I prefer real oceans to topographic ones – that's why I prefer ELP in the Eddie – Lemmy – Philthy lineup (old joke). And don't spook the Horse!
@ Johnny – Love it! Fantastic. Hmmm, I have friends to whom I've played various Motorpsycho songs and they just don't get it. I think maybe their listening is tainted by my obsession and perhaps overwhelming desire to want them to hear the glory.
So, do you find with all that objective reasoning you can predict whether you will like an act or not based on descriptions of their music and attitude?
Definitely not! Experience comes first! It's like dreaming – first you get thrown into the most confusing experiences and only later – sometimes – you grasp a glimpse what it yould all tell you.
As for making MP converts – don't try to hard, it won't work that way. The best thing I could do is meet some old friends at a MP concert as a kind of social event – and then sometimes they get it. Sometimes not – but that's up to them.
If you're eagerly trying to convince others, you keep all the good feelings for yourself – there's nothing left for them to discover. It's hard sometimes, I know – from experience
I would agree with Punj Lizard here…
" Believe it or not, there are lots of people out there who are left cold by the Grateful Dead's directionless noodling"
Can't listen to many Dead Songs these days..
Anyway nice discussion going on here..
According to this we can conclude that MP, or in any case Bent, is much more influenced by Yes en King Crimson than Rush.
top 5 all time fave songs from Bent (I think this was published in 2016?): http://www.gaesteliste.de/hitliste/promi_detail.html?_nr=284
and top 5 albums (no idea when this was published):
http://classicalbumsundays.com/bent-saether-of-motorpsychos-top-5-albums-of-all-time/
I asked a music writer friend of mine to listen to MP and tell me what he heard. He said, "like Yes at their peak doing their best attempt at Live/Dead."
But you're absolutely right.
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