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I just realised our discussion here is actually a bit off the point since – as the conscience and I myself :roll: have pointed out earlier – the two lines do not stand together in the original song/poem. So they cannot refer to each other. The question would therefore have to be what the person who put those lines together in s'Numbness had in mind while doing it. But that's most certainly gonna remain a mystery. Although I tend to agree with supernaut, the "it" here seems to be rather abstract.
Probably, mister conclusion was right: One would have to consider it in context with Bent's lyrics… Another time perhaps.
@Mark: I can't blame you for that. Having taught German as a foreign language, I know that the case inflictions and three genders for nouns make studying German as a foreign language a pain in the neck. I myself struggled a lot with (only) two genders in French. Praise English for its straight-forward grammar!
@Mark: I thought about that, too, but decided against it. "Glaube" is male in the German language but the "'s" in wird's is short for "es" which is the neutre pronoun. So, from a linguistic point of view, it can't refer to "belief". Which, admittedly, does not necessariliy mean that your interpretation is wrong. The author of the lines might not have bothered with such grammatical details.
@mister conclusion: I didn't know Snah's mom is/was German. That connection might be an explanation.
Thx to both of you.
@Tomcat & The Void: Thanks! So I must have heard it before… Obviously it didn't stuck with me.
Now that I've listened to the whole thing, I agree with the others here: It'S a great choice of songs that takes you on a 30 year long journey.
Most of the talking by Bent and fellow Norse musicians isn't new though, it's taken from another Deutschlandfunk feature from two or three years ago.
I didn't mean to discredit him and believe you when you say he's a believer. I still find those two things I mentioned strange though.
Thanks for the link, KidA! Maybe it's worth noting that it'll only be available until June 7th.
Have just listened to the first hour. There wasn't too much talking yet, just some info on the beginnings and some random comments on the songs played. Those are: The United debased, Kingdom of Oblivion, Step inside, Nothing to say, Feedtime, Feel & The Golden Core.
I don't know the author/speaker of this documentary, so I don't know if he is a psychonaut, but I suspect not for two reasons: After "Nothing to say" he comments that it seems strange that they sing "nothing/something to say" at the same time. He doesn't say "first nothing, then someting", he says "at the same time". I find that very strange; and would find it even stranger if he was right and I'd never noticed…
The second strange thing: He announces TGC as the last song of TM but then plays a weird instrumental version with a sax and some distorting noises in the beginning. Never heard that before, and didn't like it too much. Anyone know that version?
Funny that one goes to great length to make a 5 hour documentary and then gets basic things wrong… They are are wrong, aren't they?
When I click on Part2, it says I should log in on vimeo because it's a private video… Is it? I don't have an account there and I'd rather not open one. Is there a way around logging in? Thanks in advance!
I'd almost forgotten, but during MP's "cake phase" you were actually able to find quite a few young and beautiful girls in the crowd… *Sigh* I'm so old. :roll:
Thanks, Punj. I didn't think it was rude to mention that. I am just interested in those things. And I agree, the English of the forum members is exceptionally good.
@Punj Lizard: Could you name your source of that definition? I've never heard that before. You as a native English speaker, could you guess how many people get that wrong or apply it correctly in everyday speech?
Thanks, Bernie! This is brilliant stuff, I hadn't seen/heard that before. Wish I'd been there. Great way to determine the setlist.
@bionaut: Sure, give me a shout when you`ll make it to Europe, I'm always up for a beer!
That use of the term socialism, which you describe there, has caused me some confusion in the past. To me (and most other Germans, I guess), socialism is a term that first and foremost describes the kind of authoritarian system you could find in the Sowjet Union, former East Germany, China, North Korea and others. So, I would never go as far as you calling the USA a socialist country. As Johnny_Heartfield has pointed out, Germany's social security system has come a long way and is relatively extensive. But in my understanding, that still doesn't make us a socialist country. Our economic system is usually referred to as "Soziale Marktwirtschaft", a social market economy which differs from a free market economy in that it allows the state to set the framework for the economy and intervene to prevent deformations while the latter denies the state that right and lets the market manage everything through its mechanisms. But despite that, our economic system is clearly capitalist – with all its beneficial and detrimental effects.
And although I do think that capitalism as it is causes more damage than it does good, I wouldn't wanna live (or have lived) in one of the communist countries mentioned above. I'm with Norman on this one, historically, socialism as a system for a society has too often proved itself illegitimate. But that doesn't mean we should embrace capitalism blindly as the only alternative.
In my view, the state should intervene in the market a great deal more than it does here in Germany. I think we need A LOT more regulation in many fields. And I strongly reject the reflex from the right which claims that every ban or even regulation is an unacceptable intervention in the people's freedom.
Hi everybody!
@bionaut: I take it you are American? Could you define the term "socialist", please? I've had conversations like these with Americans before and there seems to be quite a big difference between the ways people in the US and in Europe use it.
@Norman_Gold: Where's the "It has been proven…" from your last post gone? I was gonna refer to that! Nevermind…
Quote:1) Free competition in a capitalistic economic environment plus 2) a developed, extensive democracy plus 3) an independent constitutional state – that's the successful combination to lead a society into peace, wealth, happiness.You can put it that way if you like but I think you have to ask the question: at what cost? Or better: whose costs? All of the big industrialized European countries have exploited other countries during the age of imperialism in order to provide ressources for their growing industries. They have taken natural ressources and committed genocides. After the abolishment of colonialism, the exploitation has continued (and still is!) through means of the free market. One of many examples: In the EU too much milk is produced for its inhabitants to consume. So the surplus is turned into milk powder which is then shipped to some poor African state and sold there cheaply. As a consequence, small farmers in that state who made a living on selling milk from their cows are driven out of business because they can't compete with the cheap substitute product from overseas.
That's a context we can't ignore anymore. Maybe it used to be easier to look the other way when people weren't online 24/7, but today? In the age of globalization and digital communication? I strongly believe that especially we in the Western industrialized countries have to accept and admit that our wealth and progress were erected on the back of others who we've exploited and, again, keep exploiting. I see very little reason why capitalism should be the preferable choice, at least in such an unregulated way as it has always been.
Idealistically, capitalism is dead. It doesn't live up to its (theoretic) promises, or if it does, only few people benefit. Let's face it, constant growth is an illusion.
And concerning your last point: Yes, if you go to someone who lacks the basic things in life, that someone would be happy to have more money. But apart from the basics, I argue that people would only measure their well-being or luck with money because they think they need a stupid € 500,-phone or stupid €300,- sneakers or a TV as big as their living room wall. In some small areas around the globe there are still some indiginous tribes who live the way they've lived for centuries, without electricity or money. In our eyes, they're poor, yet the level of contentment is high among those people.
@Be: Never been to Wehrschloss, and 95 was just before I got to know the band… 10/12 Schlachthof shows is quite impressive! And although this year seems to have been great again (I missed it too), you at least attended last year's already legendary 10-songs-in-150-minutes-gig! That one's definitely among my top 5 MP shows.
