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Dear Motorpsycho,
It's been over four weeks since the announcement of the new album, and it's now less than four weeks until its release. Where's that bloody digital single!
Yours sincerely,
Impatient of London :lol:
Apologies in advance for what might turn out to be a long post.
To start with, let me just get one thing off my chest: we’re fucked. I strongly believe that the human race as it currently stands is fucked. Not only are we dealing with what will likely be the first of many more pandemics as we wilfully brush the natural world further and further aside in our desire to consume and grow, but in the background climate change continues apace as does a significant drop in fertility rates. We’re fucked. You can take any wild figures you like, and pick holes in any arguments if you wish, but my personal feeling is that the human global population will likely have been cut by about 80% within the next 200 years. But who knows, maybe we’ll scrape through relatively unharmed.
So when it comes to talking about vaccine passports and the like, I struggle somewhat to see the world in terms that deal with what, in the bigger scheme of things, could be considered micro issues (for want of a better, less dismissive, descriptive). I constantly flick from the micro to the macro, finding it difficult to keep grasp of one without being overwhelmed by the other.
As I stated in relation to vaccination passports, I see no problem with them at present if they are used temporarily. But I do agree that there are very serious issues in terms of their potential wider, permanent use. When the pandemic was just starting to gain traction in Europe one of my best friends said he saw an opportunity for something better to grow out of the situation – for people to take value in a simpler life, for a greener recovery, etc. My response was that I see an opportunity for greater authoritarianism and control by those who hold power. While both are still possible, and in some countries the former seems to have the advantage, most countries, including the UK, where I live, is heading for greater authoritarianism. No surprise given the current government, and totally predictable given the way the Tory government and in particular the people who are currently running it acted leading up to and since the Brexit vote.
Suntripper – you said, ‘I know you believe it is just a temporary thing …’. You misunderstood me – I do not believe it is a temporary thing – I believe that IF they are introduced as a temporary thing to facilitate the opening of clubs and the like, THEN I think they’ll be OK.
As for ID cards in general, I have to say I find it hugely ironic that (1) the general population is fine with numerous forms of ID (passports and driver’s licenses and whatever else banks, mortgage lenders, credit checkers, landlords, mobile phone companies, etc. demand before they’ll do business with you), but balk at one more, when all those others are all already or increasingly connected (2) people are worried about the data that governments and corporations will have access to when all that data is already available on your phones, and through all those other contracts you signed and forms you filled out for all the other things you wanted or needed. And if you’re worried about not being able to get a job or food without one of these ID cards, spend some time with homeless people who are already in that situation because they can’t provide evidence of an address, a bank account, and all those other things I already listed that are demanded of each of us. At this stage ID cards will not create anything that isn’t already here and that the vast majority of the population willingly already sign up to. As for erosion of privacy? Forget about it, that ship sailed with all that other stuff – a lot of it on the back of 9/11 and the ‘War on Terror’, though it started well before that – just look at censuses, especially censuses conducted by European countries in their imperial conquests.
So your fear, Suntripper, that this ‘plan might have been long in the making’, well, I believe that in one way you’d be correct, but that it’s not a new plan that reads, ‘let’s have an pandemic so we can control everyone’ (what I believe the conspiracy theorists are calling a ‘plandemic’), it’s the planning of powerful people who, like most thieves, know an opportunity when they see one and THEN make their plans.
As for the ‘warnings being given by scientists and doctors’, I totally accept that they are out there and I’ve taken time to listen to a few (including Dr Yeadon) because I have long-time friends who have posted them and when I’m interested in gathering information I tend to want to hear what the naysayers are also saying. For example, for a short period I got deeply involved in Extinction Rebellion. But what I quickly realised was that I absolutely had to read up as much as I could on the subject. But that also required that I follow through when confronted by people who have come to be known as climate change deniers, so that I read what they presented and had the information to challenge them if I thought they were wrong. Most prominently, what I discovered was the following kinds of statements: qualified climate experts and scientists say it’s a hoax; they are being silenced; watch this YouTube video – the presenter is a scientist; read this paper – the writer is a climatologist. So I did. And what I discovered was that even though there were thousands of climatologists and scientists claiming climate change is real and presenting countless quantities of data to back up their findings in peer-reviewed journals and the like, the deniers cherry-picked a handful of scientists and papers to put their argument across, completely ignoring (silencing in their own way) the huge wealth of data that disagreed with them. ‘50 scientists have handed a paper to the UN explaining why climate change is a hoax’ – this was one post that did the rounds a lot when I was active. I looked it up. It was a 10 or 12-point opinion piece submitted by ‘The Friends of Science’, and signed by 12-15 signatories, a few of whom were scientists, primarily working in oil and gas. The paper had not one scientific statement, contained no scientific data, and made zero references to any scientific data or papers (oddly out of keeping with the organisation’s name). The Friends of Science, based in Calgary, Canada, are an advocacy group who were found to have gone to great lengths to cover the source of their funding, which, surprise surprise, was mostly oil and gas interests. Once again – another cherry-picked item that deniers were using to spread misinformation and distrust among the general public, most of whom would not have bothered to look any further. This cherry-picking strategy seems to be widely evident among all those I know or have come across who would have us believe, as you, Suntripper stated, that coronavirus is ‘something that has perhaps been like a bad flu’ – a statement I’ll return to at the end of this.
Cytokine storms – I’d never heard of these before last March/April. They are indeed a very real and nightmarish thing. And they are, as I understand it, one of the potential outcomes of contracting COVID-19. They have been in evidence throughout the pandemic and have been the cause of numerous deaths. Generally they are relatively rare, but are unfortunately part of the way the body reacts to the ‘novel’ coronavirus.
Deaths in care homes following vaccination – you gave two examples in the UK, one is Sidmouth, one in Exmouth. That’s two – out of how many care homes in the UK? Over 21,000 at last count. I’ll give you a third so you can increase the percentage of known occurrences (known to those of us on this thread, that is) from maybe 0.01% to 0.014%.
My wife is a domestic housekeeper at a nursing home. She has worked in this role in nursing homes for almost 20 years. Domestic housekeepers are on the frontline of infection control. Their job is not to care for residents, they are not carers, and they are not nurses or admin workers. They’re at the bottom of the ladder and generally treated as such, by management, nurses, carers, the general public, residents and even themselves. Their work is not seen as of particularly great value and consequently a lot of domestics (cleaners, as their commonly known) don’t value their own work either. My wife is perhaps an exception in this regard. She also an exception in that she treats the residents as her bosses, and less so her supervisors or the nursing home management. As far as she’s concerned, the residents pay her wages. No residents = no job.
Back in April her care home was hit by the virus and 8 of the 60 residents died, as did her supervisor. They were all deemed to have contracted COVID-19. The number of deaths was excessive. This was not normal. This was not a bad case of the flu. This was not people dying of the things they were in the care home for. Some of the residents are simply old nuns and priests (the care home is connected to the Catholic Church and a Catholic charity). But there were some, including my wife’s supervisor, who had what we now call underlying conditions that made them susceptible to severe reactions and possibly death if they contracted COVID. We can say that without COVID, most of them would have lived longer.
After that wave, the summer and autumn passed without incident. The nursing home employed a new head housekeeper to replace my wife’s dead supervisor. She had worked as head housekeeper at another nursing home where one of my wife’s friend’s works (as with many fields, it’s a small world and many of the people who work in nursing homes around the area know one another). The death toll at that nursing home during the first wave had been catastrophic – well over 50% of the residents had died.
By the late autumn, when case numbers were on the rise again in the UK, the nursing home had the following testing system in place: all staff, tested by half-hour test every day and sent home to self-isolate for two weeks if testing positive. All residents and all staff tested twice a week on the more reliable two-day test. Weeks and weeks went by with nothing more than the occasional staff member testing positive on the less reliable half-hour test – maybe four positive tests over a period of about two months. In early January, on one day all staff and all residents were vaccinated, with the exception of a few (including my wife’s new supervisor) who, for whatever reasons, opted out.
That same week positive tests started showing up, first among a couple residents on one wing of the home and then spreading throughout that wing and into the other three. Within two weeks 10 residents had died. So there you are, a third example you can add to your very short list of care homes in which people died from COVID within days of being vaccinated.
Now look a little closer. The home has four wings, each with 15 residents. In one wing every single resident and staff member tested positive, and 8 residents died. In another, most tested positive and 2 died. In a third, half tested positive and no-one died. In my wife’s wing, 2 residents and no staff tested positive and no-one died. An array of results, yet they all, on the same day, had the same vaccination. Surely, if the vaccine were to blame, we could expect similar results across the whole nursing home, couldn’t we? So why the unusual data. Well one theory, which my wife believes, is the cavalier attitude displayed by her new supervisor. One of the main thrusts in her ‘policy’ changes since coming to the nursing home has been to cut back on certain practices so she can meet her budget. One of these cutbacks has been to instruct her staff to use the same cleaning cloths over and over and over, rather than using disposable ones. Environmentally her choice is the right one, and it helps her meet her budget. But for infection control, especially during a pandemic with a virus that is highly transmissible, it’s a dreadful policy. My wife, being who she is, ignored it. She continued to use disposable cloths, as did everyone on her wing who all decided not to do so could be disastrous. This is one of a few new practices the new supervisor introduced that they chose to ignore. My wife believes that was crucial in halting the spread of the virus in her wing and the consequent saving of lives. She also believes that what aided the spreading of the virus and loss of lives in the other wings, especially the one that lost 8 residents, was the cavalier attitude of her new supervisor who (1) had been in charge of housekeeping at a care home that was decimated during the first wave, (2) had introduced questionable practices vis-à -vis infection control, (3) was the prime domestic housekeeper working on the wing that was hit hardest. There is no indication of the outbreak and deaths being caused by the vaccine – only a coincidence in the arrival of the virus in the home (most likely brought in by one of two contract workers who were needed to cover absentees) during the same week everyone was vaccinated. And I repeat, if the vaccine had been the cause, data would show that it had spread more evenly throughout the home. Moreover, the same results would be seen up and down the country, in large overwhelmingly undeniable numbers and unsilenceable numbers. Based on conversations my wife has had with friends and colleagues working in other care homes in the local area, none have suffered the same coincidence.
‘something that has perhaps been like a bad flu’ – data and evidence and thousands and thousands of scientists, doctors, epidemiologists and virologists overwhelmingly disagree, most of them vehemently. And that’s not cherry-picking a few names. Furthermore, roughly 125,000 excess deaths since the first death attributed to COVID-19 in the UK disagree. (Excess deaths defined as number of deaths higher than the five-year average.)
I don’t need you to believe anything different than what you choose. And I certainly wouldn’t want you to have a vaccine you don’t approve of, or to sign-up for a vaccine passport scheme you disapprove of. And I really wouldn’t want those choices taken away from you. I also wouldn’t expect you to trust the current UK government, or Tony Blair. I don’t trust either of them. But like all things, there’s no black and white in much of this. There are degrees and spectrums. I guess we all find our own spot based on what we read, hear, think, feel.
I don’t think I have much to add to this discussion so please forgive me if I don’t respond further, though I will read whatever is posted here.
Sail on.
@ Johnny_Heartfield
I was expecting you might have some interesting input on this subject
Thanks for sharing those other 'versions', none of which I'd heard before. I can't say I find the earlier Sam Gopal or the later Motörhead tracks you posted links to have enough in common with The Watcher (not least the title) to be fairly considered the same song, though the similarities in parts are clear – much like the similarity between Riding the Tiger and Tristano are clear, though the tracks themselves are hugely different.As for the Clapton-invovled live version … please god, no thanks.
So they're covering a Hawkwind song! I'm personally hoping it doesn't drift into the territory of the Motörhead version, though the description of it being "gloomy" and "playful" suggests it could go either way.
In the light of comments in the thread on the recent laut.de interview, I found the following quite funny …
Quote:[Obelisk:] When was a time when a firmly held belief was tested?[Bent:] Oh, all the time! I am an opinionated loudmouth and catch myself spewing bullshit almost every day, so … ‘frequently’ would be the truest answer here!
From Reverendo Lys
Quote:The Waning ci introduce direttamente nella comfort-zone dei Motorpsycho, lasciandoci intendere che stavolta il viaggio sarà meno impervio, non privo di scossoni, ma in qualche modo confortevole. Riportandoci addirittura in posti già visti, come la The Watcher che fu degli Hawkwind prima e dei Motörhead subito appresso.Kingdom of Oblivion insomma è il ritorno ai Motorpsycho un po’ pluviali e un po’ plumbei di Timothy’s Monster. Capaci di dolcezze assolute (vedi qui i sipari acustici di Atet, Cormorant e After the Fair) e di cavalcate grungedeliche come gli undici minuti di The Transumation of Cosmoctopus Lurker. Sembra di stare in equilibrio sul palco del Central Park in occasione del concerto di Simon & Garfunkel con la consapevolezza che presto da sotto le travi un qualche motore a reazione sputerà il suo carico di cherosene sottoforma di lingue di fuoco per spararci nello spazio, dove quelle lingue si trasformeranno nei tentacoli di The United Debased, Dreamkiller, Kingdom of Oblivion seducendoci come le braccia di KÄlÄ«, mutandosi in abbraccio quando serve, come succede su Lady May1 e The Hunt.
Dall’alto del loro pianeta ellittico e verdeggiante, i Motorpsycho guardano il nostro pianeta friabile sbriciolarsi sotto i loro occhi. E ammiccano.
Translation by DeepL:
Quote:The Waning introduces us directly in the comfort-zone of Motorpsycho, letting us understand that this time the journey will be less difficult, not without jolts, but somehow comfortable. Bringing us back even in places already seen, such as The Watcher which was the first Hawkwind and Motörhead immediately following.Kingdom of Oblivion, in short, is the return to Motorpsycho a bit 'rain and a bit' leaden Timothy's Monster. Capable of absolute sweetness (see here the acoustic curtains of Atet, Cormorant and After the Fair) and of grungedelic rides like the eleven minutes of The Transumation of Cosmoctopus Lurker. It seems to be balanced on the stage of Central Park during the concert of Simon & Garfunkel with the knowledge that soon from under the beams some jet engine will spit its load of kerosene in the form of tongues of fire to shoot us into space, where those tongues will turn into the tentacles of The United Debased, Dreamkiller, Kingdom of Oblivion seducing us like the arms of KÄlÄ«, changing into an embrace when needed, as happens on Lady May1 and The Hunt.
From the top of their elliptical and verdant planet, Motorpsycho watch our crumbling planet crumble before their eyes. And they wink.
Posted by FCO in the main Kingdom of Oblivion thread.
from EMP:
Quote:Mit dem scheppernd und knarzend vorwärts marschierenden, dabei erstaunlich melodischen „The warning, Pt. 1 & 2†stellen die Herrschaften aus Trondheim mal wieder spielend unter Beweis, wer die Könige des psychedelischen Noise-Hardrocks sind. Als ob wir das nicht alle längst wüssten. Um ihr Statement aber noch zu untermauern legen Motorpsycho mit dem majestätischen Titeltrack nach, der dann überraschend in das akustische, etwas an den Westcoast-Sound von Crosby, Stills & Nash erinnernde und mindestens ebenso geniale „Lady May 1†übergeht. Weitere Highlights eines atmosphärisch stimmigen, dabei immens abwechslungsreichen Longplayers mit viel Spät-Sixties- beziehungswiese Früh-Seventies-Feeling und doch von zeitlloser Schönheit gesegnet, sind das ebenso deftig riff-beladene, wie nachdenkliche „The united debasedâ€, das düster-verspielte „The watcherâ€, das fast neunminütige, proggig anmutende Epos „At empire’s end†und das spacige Stoner-Monster „The transmutation of Cosmoctopus Lurker †Ein weiteres Meisterwerk in der von solchen überquellenden Diskografie der Norweger.Google translate:
Quote:With the clattering and creaking marching, surprisingly melodic “The warning, Pt. 1 & 2 â€, the guys from Trondheim again playfully prove who the kings of psychedelic noise hard rock are. As if we didn't all already know. To underpin their statement, Motorpsycho followed up with the majestic title track, which then surprisingly merged into the acoustic, at least as ingenious “Lady May 1â€, somewhat reminiscent of the West Coast sound of Crosby, Stills & Nash. Further highlights of an atmospherically coherent, immensely varied long player with a lot of late sixties or early seventies feeling and yet blessed with timeless beauty are the hearty, riff-laden and thoughtful “The united debasedâ€, the gloomy, playful “ The watcher â€, the almost nine-minute, prog-seeming epic“ At empire's end â€and the spacey stoner monster“ The transmutation of Cosmoctopus Lurker â€Another masterpiece in the overflowing discography of the Norwegians.@ suntripper – ha ha, I just realised a post I had attributed to you was actually posted by the conscience! Apologies.
I'll edit my post above.
@ the conscience
I have not read the Arvay book but have looked him up and read a little about his thoughts regarding the vaccinations (of which there are now several being used, having been created by various organisations). I think we all should be sceptical about what we put in our body and, in relation to drugs, about the chemicals used and the processes by which they are brought to the public (or to the market, if you will). I am no fan of big pharma! Either way, though, the virus is with us, it is widespread, it trasmits much more easily and faster than flu and is much more deadly and can have dreadful long-lasting effects for some of those who recover. Given this reality, Big Pharma can either provide us with prevetative medicine (vaccines) or treatments/cures (it's a kind of "you pay me now or you pay me later" situation – if later, then lots of people will die in the meantime). I believe the former (prevention) is better than the latter (treatment/cure). In this regard, it seems clear that staying healthy through diet, exercise, mental care, care of the environment etc. are always, IMHO, better preventatives than drugs – but sometimes, those things are not enough, especially in a society that seems hell bent on destroying itself by ignoring those things. So a combination of the best possible solutions – not one thing to the exclusion of another – is what I would aim for.
I also noticed Arvay has talked about Bill Gates' involvement. Sadly, all the previous discussions I've seen about Bill Gates in this regard have come from people who also push very questionable theories, or whose ideas sit side by side on websites with people who follow QAnon, David Icke, and similar – this immediately turns me off.
@ the conscience (again)
If you want to see "all psychonauts" joining hands together, you would be advised not to charcaterise those who choose to be vaccinated as "needle junkies" (which is a clearly negative term), and those who do not choose to be vaccinated as "rebels" (which has for many many years been code for "cool"). Such charcaterisations do not bring people together, they divide them.
@ mister conclusion:
What you outline is pretty much where my head is at. I see vaccination passports as a temporary solution to enable clubs and the like to operate without the fear of their venue becoming a site for the spread of the virus. Once "herd immunity" is reached through vaccination and infection/recovery, then there would be no need for the passport.
Personally I believe vaccination should be entirely the individual's choice and if people choose not to be vaccinated for reasons of religion, vegetarianism, or whatever they happen to have read or understood about vaccinations and the virus (whether they are well informed, uninformed, or misinformed), then that's up to them.
PS I had my first vaccination shot on Sunday and am a vegetarian.
@ suntripper
I can address two of your questions.
Flu deaths are down because 1. We are all practising infection control methods such as washing hands, wearing masks, social distancing and lockdown. 2. People are dying of COVID, which is far more virulent and deadly than flu.
"Excess deaths" in the UK (which means deaths by all causes over and above the five-year average) is currently running at just over 123,000 since the outbeak of coronavirus began, which is very close to the official number of COVID-19 deaths for the same period.
In the spirit of "I hate what you're saying but love that you're saying it", I would be very interested in reading unemotional arguments regarding why vaccination passports are a problem for those that are against them for concerts, and why they are a good idea to those that are in favour of them for concerts. But I am not interested if this turns into a "you're a twat" "no, you're a twat" mud-slinging. My mind is not made up on this subject, and I believe both sides have both good arguments and problematic arguments and I would like to read them if some of you can consider taking the time to lay them out. I'll check back later … or tomorrow.
@Naur – thanks
@fco – Hey, where did that image come from? I love it! And I'm getting increasingly excited about this album, but still over a month to wait! Where's the "single" already? :wink:
