Short interview with Bent for

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    the conscience

      Some psychonauts have an opinion about some songs and let everyvbody know and write something complete different after getting deeper and begin to understand. Think about it J


        @Johnny_H Nailed it on both accounts.


          Sorry I let myself go. Generally I would like to keep politics out of this forum – obviously I fail there quite a bit ;-). Fact is I cannot let stand some "opinions" regarding social developments that I consider as foolish or even malevolent stupidity.

          Let's discuss music here – there are as many opions as there are contributers, and that's good. As for political or social tendencies – everyone's entitled to their opinion, but if some people do constantly push their foolish views (my opinion), constantly nudging, never ready to let things go I consider this quite agressive and react likewise. Sorry folks…

          @ the conscience: I may publish my verdicts on MP music quite prematurely sometimes and change my view next day, but considering politics and society I think I have an attitude that's basically quite firm, built up over the years including a long and sometimes painful learning process. Therefore I find it quite disrespectful if some people – here in this forum and in "real" life – push their views with a religious stance, calling other people to "wake up" in spite of at least reflecting their own positions sometimes. Strangely I think it is just those caught in their own mythologies and dream worlds that want all the others to "wake up". I could write books on that topic, but certainly not here.

          the conscience

            @ Johnny „Those freedoms were hard won, that's true – by the people who sticked to the – sometimes harsh, sometimes quite illogical, but still necessary – rules, by the people who inventend and produced the vaccines in very short time, by the medical staff that worked 24 hrs a day to save people and to prevent others getting sick. And by those who willingly undertook the risk to get vaccined with rather unknown medication. Those just protesting and refusing did nothing for the freedom they claim to defend@

            Maybe you are right but maybe springtime and Summer is the real reason for the less positively tested persons in the moment or maybe anything else


              Johnny H

              And by those who willingly undertook the risk to get vaccined with rather unknown medication. Those just protesting and refusing did nothing for the freedom they claim to defend.

              Damn right! Some folks just don't get that they confuse opinions with facts and freedom with egoism.

              I'm getting my 2nd shot tomorrow. So bring on the tour! :MPD:

              the conscience

                „Damn right! Some folks just don't get that they confuse opinions with facts and freedom with egoism“

                Damn right. Congratulations



                  don't feed the trolls.


                    The demo they want you to think never took place:



                      …and not a single mention from the BBC, despite hundreds of thousands of people marching through London; yet the BBC did take it seriously enough to have a massive police ring of steel around their building:

                      But still you won't suspect anything…


                        I really do sympathize with the judge right after the first minute:



                          Edit: pic removed. Meant to be a humorous follow-up to supernaut's post, and in similar Monty Python vein – but I don't like it, can't stand 100% behind it and I don't want to keep seeing it, so it's gone. Yes, I know: will I please do that with all my other posts?!


                            :D @supernaut and :cheers: @Johhny H


                              Johnny, supernaut, cloudhawker, David or anyone else that fancies helping me out…

                              Can you please explain for me why you associate a concern with 'vaccines' and 'vaccine' passports with the Trump/alt-right/Brexit mindset? This keeps coming up. It seems that Bent shares this with you, judging by the interview that sparked this whole to-and-fro.

                              This mindset certainly isn't where I'm coming from, and I don't believe it's where a great many of those hundreds of thousands demonstrating in London are coming from either (although you might be able to prove me wrong). So, how do you come to make this connection? What am I not seeing? I would really like to understand.


                                Dear suntripper, dear fellow psychonauts,

                                Why are face masks designed with no respect for people with beards?

                                What if more of us were women? How would this thread look like? Or are most of us in fact females using male nicknames?

                                What is the footprint of all that plastic waste related to our fight against the virus?

                                So we are fighting the virus, right? Shouldn’t we learn to live with it in stead?

                                How would Charles Darwin view the pandemic and the way we deal with it?

                                All along in this thread I’ve been wondering. In times of extreme uncertainty, how come there are so many answers and so few questions?

                                I feel grateful for the decreasing infections, largely due to vaccination. Enormous respect for our medical fellow humans who are working so hard. I’d like to support the common good, show solidarity, see MP live again. Yet I have doubts about the vaccines that I regard as experimental for the time being and of unknown impact to my body. What should I do?

                                Why is the what-if question so difficult to spot on this thread? Imagine yourself, Johnny, Supernaut, the Conscience or any of us asking: what if it’s the other way around?

                                For instance: what if my doubts are unnecessary? Many say: the risk of taking the vaccine is far less than the probability of severe health problems when attracting corona. Others say: let go of your skepticism. Yes. Good points.

                                How come we so easily seem to dismiss another person’s opinion as a stereotype like binary, antivax, conspiracy, egoism? Is it because we are afraid, taking the easy way out, too filled up with preconceptions? What are we missing by not being a bit more open? Wouldn’t it at least be interesting to hear a story we haven’t heard before?

                                Punj said earlier in this thread he believes we are fucked. Here in Holland we keep thousands of animals stuffed with antibiotics in huge stables in order to supply our meat factories. Some Dutch are proud that our tiny country is one of the biggest agricultural exporters in the world. To protect the industry, once a contagious disease is found, we butcher all animals at risk in no time, by the hundreds of thousands.

                                Imagine we were the animals and the animals were us and they would treat us the way we treat them.

                                The virus is believed to have first emerged in the same bizarre meat-mass-consumption realm. Apart from our kind of handling of the symptoms of a perverted world, shouldn’t we also discuss the need for intrinsic health or even system change? Not on this forum please. Fair enough. In any case, at least it would bring us closer to our other common good since many of the Gullvåg lyrics are related to this topic.

                                Mankind likes to kill prophets. Jesus was only 33 years old. What if the virus were a mini-prophet, with a voice and an opinion of its own?

                                Are we fucked? Here’s an attempt by Nick Cave to say something meaningful.


                                  @ suntripper: Fear of the absolute state, media manipulation and restrictions of freedom I consider principally sound, but I suspect they're turning into something else just now. I discover the same paranoid mindset in rabid vaccine sceptics, anti-corona-measure propagandists, Trumpists, right-wing conspiracists and populists. The issues may differ, but the overall structure appears similar to me.

                                  Talk of "evil" mainstream media or institutions, that alledgedly "suppress" vital "truths" that we only have to "awake" to – or "come around" to. The messianic urge to constantly attack "sleepers", "dreamers", "sheep", i.e. non- or not so paranoid people. The inability to cope with other attidudes and opinions. Constantly merging facts and opinion. Rabid anti-scientific propaganda.

                                  I could go on forever. My diagnosis: collective madness. A formerly "reasonable" society on the edge. Reasonable trust in "common" truths being destroyed – among others by ongoing capitalist conspiracies against common values, brutal egoism and constant struggle for self-enrichment and self-promotion in a neoliberal society. This has been building up since the 1980s at least, but is now being reflected in the mindsets of so-called "free thinkers" and "rebels". Who are in turn just puppets or at least being strategically exploited by shameless rulers – "Psychotzars" of the political and economic world ruthlessly destroying any regulations or remaining balances of power in their way. Considering this we're really fucked.

                                  Instead of constantly bashing "mainstream media" you should for instance consider the real scandal going on just now in the UK – a populist leader and a once shining institution like the BBC under permanent political and financial attack close to collapse. Yes – the BBC has given its enemies lots of ammunition by its own faults, mistakes and scandals over the years. Yet still it is an institution that has the potential to stand in the way of sheer populism and ruthless government, that gives space for reflection and free expression. When we have smashed all our bedevilled institutions we shall only then realize that they were all that protected us from tyranny and collective madness. What some call "mainstream censorship" I call reflective thinking instead of impulsive action. Editors are essential!

                                  The problem is that todays narcissistic egos want instant gratification. No more delays, no more reflection, no more considering opposite views – just cry out your urges here and now and smash everything in your way. "Four legs good! Two legs bad!" shout the sheep in Orwell's "Animal Farm" parable – thus being led on the path towards tyranny and oppression. "Mainstream bad! Alternative media good!"

                                  From a psychoanalytical point of view you project onto your opponents just what you don't like and refuse to recognize in yourself. So who's the sheep now?

                                  (this has turned into a polemic against the common or typical conspiracist, not a real person. No personal attacks on anyone here intended. Just think about it – I will consider your positions as well.)

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                                …hanging on to the trip you're on since 1994