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The thing is, David, it is relevant, because Bent has said something, published on this thread, to which I am responding. It is also to do with future MP gigs, and therefore relevant.
Bent's words, and, presumably, the actions that will follow, have a real-world effect on me, on you and on our loved ones.
I repeat, I am incredibly disappointed.
Thanks, ThorEgil for the tip. However, you might not be happy to see the links I want to post. I just ask you, if I do post them, to look with an open mind.
I completely accept that all the highly qualified doctors and scientists to whose work I want to refer could be wrong. I could be wrong in paying them any attention.
Could anyone else on this thread be wrong?
"The arrogant man does not need to see. He already sees almost everything, and what he thinks he has yet to learn he believes the experts will one day show him. And who are these experts? They’re not really doctors of the soul, ladies and gentlemen. They do not have the man’s interest at heart. They are in fact his worst enemies; his most cunning manipulators who lead him to do their bidding like any slave master since Egypt."
William Cooper
In the spirit of "I hate what you're saying but love that you're saying it", I would be very interested in reading unemotional arguments regarding why vaccination passports are a problem for those that are against them for concerts, and why they are a good idea to those that are in favour of them for concerts. But I am not interested if this turns into a "you're a twat" "no, you're a twat" mud-slinging. My mind is not made up on this subject, and I believe both sides have both good arguments and problematic arguments and I would like to read them if some of you can consider taking the time to lay them out. I'll check back later … or tomorrow.
No need to pollute the space by whining about your own opinion if it somehow differs from someone else's opinion and calling them idiots, blinds, arrogant or whatever.
@Punj Lizard: Quite right.
For the record, I am not a fan of Trump or the alt-right – far from it.
Also for the record, I have never been an anti-vaxxer. However, I have come across good reason to fear the possible long-term consequences of taking these vaccines, which are so much more different from all that has gone before than people seem to realise. Should I just ignore that, when it comes from so many highly qualified doctors and scientists who have nothing to gain and everything to lose?
Am I whining about my opinion? Well, not really, because I'm not even sure what I think. I am still trying to figure out what is going on.
I am wondering why there have been no flu deaths this year.
I am wondering why the total number of all-cause deaths is not significantly higher than in previous years.
I am wondering why the average age of 'COVID-19" deaths in my country is higher than the average life expectancy.
I am wondering why autopsies have been banned.
I am wondering why the requirement has been reduced to just one doctor, who has not necessarily even seen the patient but who can put COVID-19 on the death certificate – "with COVID-19" adds to the grim total of supposed COVID-19 deaths. (See the case of Daily Mail writer Bel Mooney's father, and all the people who wrote in saying 'me too'.)
I am wondering why such faith has been put in a test, when the inventor of the test himself said it should never be used for diagnosis, since, with a sufficient number of amplifications, you can find anything in anybody.
I am wondering why economies around the world have been trashed.
I simply ask people to open their eyes and at least consider that the official narrative might be suspect in a number of ways.
As far as vaccine oassports go, surely it isn't difficult to see where that leads?
@suntripper Please, leave it. This is not the right forum. Thanks.
@Punj: Some unemotional arguments:
Nobody likes fascism, racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-semism or other exclusion of other people.
And there are also people who do not distinguish between human and animal life. Vegetarians and vegans, for example. However, the substance Limulus amebocyte lysate is required for the production of every vaccine (according to Clemens G. Arvay) and therefore millions of Atlantic horseshoe crabs are killed every year. Not to mention primates and other animal experiments.
And then there are people who have a problem with using cells from aborted fetuses. These, too, are either included in pretty much all vaccines or were used for test phases. This is especially difficult for some Christians.
Is it okay to marginalize believing Christians or consistent vegetarians?
To name two examples / news / sources, unfortunately both in German.
https://www.dw.com/de/das-blaue-blut-der-pfeilschwanzkrebse-kann-leben-retten/a-46591644
Punj, here is a dialogue you might find interesting. As objective as possible, no emotions, no politics. It’s from Belgium (translation needed):
http://www.gezondheidenwetenschap.be/in-de-kijker/factcheck-beweringen-artsen-voor-vrijheid
@ suntripper
I can address two of your questions.
Flu deaths are down because 1. We are all practising infection control methods such as washing hands, wearing masks, social distancing and lockdown. 2. People are dying of COVID, which is far more virulent and deadly than flu.
"Excess deaths" in the UK (which means deaths by all causes over and above the five-year average) is currently running at just over 123,000 since the outbeak of coronavirus began, which is very close to the official number of COVID-19 deaths for the same period.
Covid-19 is not politics, fascism or a conspiracy. It's a disease with a fatality rate at around 2%, and about 10% get serious long term effects.
There will be no festivals, tours or big concerts before the majority of the population is vaccinated – or the 2% of the population is dead…
That's a fact. Deal with it.
How is it that people who rarely or never contributed to the forum, all of a sudden feel the urge to express their opinion on what is basically an absolutely über-discussed off-topic? Go tell it to someone who cares. This is the wrong place!
some say Covid-19 is a brütal disease, some not, some say it´s a disease and politics, and fascism and conspiracy, some not, some kill and eat animals, some not, some have emotions for everything, some not, some believe in something, some not, some take care of themselve, some not, some living a risc live, some not, some want to became 100 years old, some not, some use the word fact inflationary, some not…
again, like Punj said above: One could almost say nobody talks anymore, the public discourse is gone, it's ugly like never before, and binary thinking has won
I totally understand people only want to see posts here about their favourite band. Had I not read what Bent said, I would not have posted. The fact that Bent did say it makes the discussion on-topic, as far as I am concerned.
Incidentally, I posted quite regularly (almost always in praise of this great band) from when I joined the forum until a year ago, when I stopped for reasons that I needn't go into. I continued to read and appreciate contributions. I hope the gap doesn't mean I shouldn't have posted again.
Before posting, i did expect the hostility, but it still saddens me.
By the way, anybody readng the William Cooper quote that begins, "The arrogant man.." who thinks it means I am having a go at them or at someone here for being arrogant, please read it again, because that was not the intention. I think there is great wisdom in this quote. The point is to encourage an open mind, and a scepticism where experts are concerned. If you have humility, you will see that it speaks to all of us.
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