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@suntripper: Bravo! I am very impressed with your post. First of all, I am not sure why you think I would be disappointed by what you have to say. You have a very good way of speaking your mind and heart, I believe, and I really cannot take a side against anything you have to say.
I especially appreciate your interest in building common ground. I think your post succeeds in meeting that interest. I think we are all working together now to understand that we do have something in common, and it is something more than an appreciation of beer
@suntripper: I want to thank you for calling out @Norman_Gold’s comments about corporatism. Parsing the valuable nuggets from his insults is time-consuming, and I have to do a bit of skimming when reading his posts. Your comment helped me focus on one of the nuggets I failed to appreciate the first time through.
I had to Google ‘corporatism’, and I had to educate myself on ‘social democratic corporatism’ in order to understand what it means. That process led me to understand that everyone else on this thread seems to have a better grasp of political theory and history than I do! It also has helped me, I think, begin to understand a little better the forces that have shaped the thinking of someone like @Norman_Gold and others.
Perhaps the one thing I bring to this discussion is the experience of being American, though not a typical one. I was born in 1962. I have voted in every US election since 1980. I have never once voted for a Republican or a Democratic candidate. I have voted for an alternative every single time, because I believe America needs a third party. I have long understood that Republicans and Democrats are basically the same thing. Two flavors of politician owned by extreme wealth.
Allow me to add another facet to the historical record. Consider Eisenhower’s warning of the rise of the Military Industrial Complex. Check it out if you are not familiar:
@Norman_Gold: I was wondering if you would attack me for the lack of an invitation to join me for beers! Rest assured, my friend, I haven’t given up hope that you too will prove to be someone with whom I would enjoy having a few beers. As for your insinuation that I am unwilling to deal with an opposite view, let us both remember that it was I who started this thread for the sole purpose of dealing with you, someone who is clearly not of like mind.
As for the rest of your diatribe, it is simply a lot of something I call “baloney farmingâ€. You are conjuring an argument from some knowledge, some ignorance, and some assumptions without making an attempt to understand the individual with whom you are attempting to communicate. The content of your attacks, for let us be clear about your efforts, enables me to be certain that you do not understand me at all.
It is you who forces this conversation into conflict, and that is why I am not yet interested in having beers with you.
I do not lack will, I can tell you that, and I am learning a great deal from this discussion. I thank everyone who has joined in, and I look forward to learning more.
@Great King Rat: I hope to make it to Europe. I have not been on an airplane since 1999. I heard a voice. It said never get on a plane again. Two things are pushing me to take the chance. One, my wife wants the family to see Europe, and two, Motorpsycho! So, if I go, the dates WILL align with a tour
I love your message about socialism. There is so much for me to learn. Now it is becoming more clear how different America really is.
Americans have no fucken idea what socialism is. Some of us do, of course, but they are learned folk with some legitimate experience (I do not count myself in this group). Americans are unbelievably ignorant.
Let me try and restate an American's understanding of socialism. Socialism is a system that robs billionaires of their gains, stealing money from the fossil fuel and defense industries in particular, and gives it to undeserving lazy people. It is helpful to understand that the American 'government' is making this work by demonizing the undeserving and obfuscating the truth, brainwashing hard-working Americans into thinking the government cares about them.
This is how America is working under Trump. The Republicans create a tax cut for the wealthy. They increase defense spending. They wait a few months and begin to talk about the deficit again. Then, they try to cut social programs. The thing is, you cannot blame it all on the Republicans, because the Democrats really aren't any better. Virtually all of our politicians have been purchased by extreme wealth, and they work to satisfy their masters. This is not democracy. This is unfettered capitalism ridden with corruption, and it will get worse.
@Johnny_Heartfield: I am in harmony with your thinking, and I believe I have addressed much of what you are talking about in my rant above. You are also invited to join us for beers.
Let me just say that the contours of this debate are becoming more clear to me, and I feel enlivened.
@Norman_Gold: Money is a tiny God for tiny minds (thanks to Stefan K).
@suntripper: You sound like someone with whom I could enjoy having a few beers. I look at my initial comments about Chomsky and realize I was too vague. I was simply working on an answer to Norman's question, "Why Bernie?" I should have limited my thoughts about Chomsky more clearly in answer to that question. Chomsky has been around a long time and said a lot of things. I don't know all of it, and I probably wouldn't support all of it if I did. That said, I was thinking of a recent interview in which Chomsky's articulation of why Bernie would be the least evil choice for the next president of the United States made good sense to me. I should have been more clear. I cannot say I agree with everything you are suggesting, but I appreciate your manner and expect we could come to a common understanding in a friendly conversation.
@Norman_Gold: "infantile", "totally naive", "narcissistic, egocentric childish"… To answer on such absolute negativity is impossible
When you speak about people who are clever enough to utilize the system for themselves in an anti-social way, I agree that this is a deeply egoistic behavior that should be fought against. Correct me if I am wrong, it seems that you do not count people of excessive wealth in this class. Let's face it, nobody ever 'earned' a billion dollars.
In response to this:
Quote:1) Free competition in a capitalistic economic environment plus 2) a developed, extensive democracy plus 3) an independent constitutional state – that's the successful combination to lead a society into peace, wealth, happiness. You don't believe it?I do believe it is possible. I do not believe any of those three conditions you state exist in America today.
At the end of the day, I think your 'logic' is self-serving and disconnected, and yes, we will have to talk about spiritual matters if this conversation is going to go anywhere interesting. That said, I am intrigued with your use of the phrase, "the human being." That articulation is rarely heard in America. I use it all the time. Let's forget Chomsky and talk about Steiner.
@Great King Rat: Yes, I am American. I would have to Google the word 'socialism' for a definition. I'm not gonna lie. I'll take a swing though, socialism is when the state takes your money and gives it to someone else. I think you make a great point about the difference in perception between Europeans and Americans. That's why I decided to get this debate going. I am so curious to learn. I appreciate your comments in response to Norman_Gold, and I think you should join @suntripper and myself for some beers.
Hi Norman, Sorry to go dark for a bit. I have a busy life!
Absolute negativity? That's funny. You don't get America.
In any case, the truly interesting part of this discussion is the question of better alternatives. I am not the guy to do the heavy lifting here, but I will tell you that one person who has the right of things is Noam Chomsky. If you are familiar with his thinking, then you know what I am talking about.
Chomsky's basic position on the better alternative is the, "lesser of two evils," solution. Normally, I would not want to hear about that kind of thinking, but in his case, I get it. He thinks Bernie would be the least evil. Why? Let us first understand that we are talking about a metric other than money.
You see, the flaw in so many arguments is the attempt to measure well-being with financial metrics. To me, that is nonsense. Maybe to you, it's not. Let me ask a question. What does the word 'soul' mean to you?
I propose that we all agree that this thread is not a safe space. That said, I do not intend to bring anger to the conversation. We all need to figure out how to talk to people who hold ideas we cannot understand. So, my views, preferences, beliefs in no particular order…
I live in what seems to be the most fucked up country on the planet. Dave Wyndorf, a great American philosopher, sums it well…
"I fed my dog the American dream
He rolled over and he started to scream
He said, I dig the taste of salt,
But it won't keep me alive"
There is a lot to unpack in that statement, but suffice it to say that America is a place where the dogs are smarter than the people. That, in a nutshell, is how Donald Trump got elected.
I first became aware of Trump in the 1970's when I was a teenager. I lived near NYC, and this guy was in the local news all the time. It was clear to me that the guy was a self-centered asshole of the first order, and I have never understood the fascination. Interesting anecdote: Keith Richards once had to be restrained from knifing The Donald (look it up).
I will give Trump one thing. He is probably the greatest con man of all time. I say this grudgingly, as Titanic Thompson really deserves the title. Titanic never conned a country into electing him president, though. That's a game changer.
Trump captures the worst qualities of America and humanity in general. All this talk of Ayn Rand is nonsense when you try to apply it to Trump. Trump is an animal. He does not think like a human. He does not care about you, or me, or anybody else. He only has eyes for the mirror. This is not what Ayn Rand espoused. I think this article discusses this concept well enough…
As far as the socialism discussion goes, let's not lose sight of the truth. America is a socialist country right now and has been for some time. We just practice socialism in our own way. Our government gives money to corporations too fucked up to stay in business without help on a regular basis. That's how American socialism works. It is selective, just like racism. It starts with the 14th Amendment, and we keep the party going with the Citizens United decision. Corporations have the rights of an individual, and campaign contributions are free speech. Ha ha ha!
So, here we have Bernie Sanders running for president. He is not a prefect person, but he is authentic. He's an actual bomb thrower. He's not conning anybody. If he would just start playing MC5 as his walk-on music at campaign events… but I digress. America needs to stop itself. We are a runaway train. No other candidate is up to the task.
Agreed. I am very interested to speak with Norman Gold some more, so I will try starting a new thread and see what happens.
As for Motorpsycho and Rush, I am now able to hear some Rush in MP music. It has taken me some time. Probably mostly because I never really listened to any Rush after Hemispheres, and that one did not get a lot of play when it came out. That was the end for me. What can I say? I never got into prog of any kind until I heard Motorpsycho!
Cop a feel
Make a deal
Shit is all too real
Hey Norman, I am a 58-year old American living on Cape Cod. May I ask, what country are you from and where do you live now? How old are you? Just curious.
Thank you very much for taking on this project @Blashyrkh!
I have been way too busy to watch this site closely, so please excuse me if the following questions/ideas have already been considered…
I would love to see container fields for images. One field would suffice, but it would be great to have one field for setlist images, one field for gig posters, and one field for live images. Another consideration is a field to hold a URL for one or more external sites with images already posted.
I would also love to see a field with info about recordings made for each show.
One technical question, how many tables are involved in this database?
Finally, one other similar site to consider for ideas is the Black Crowes site… http://www.crowesbase.com
Thank you Bernie! I keep watching the opening sequence to the start of The Tower. I love it. I may never see this band live, and I am blessed to have such great video and audio coming over the internet to America
As for the Kiss influence on Motorpsycho, it really jumps out for me in Hey Jane. That "Ooo-ooo, Ooo-ooo, Ooooo" part of the chorus is straight out of the Kiss songbook.
Here's what I have so far for 'The Other Fool' chill-out references…
Supper's Ready – 5/11/19 – Oslo
Moby Grape – 5/15/19 – Copenhagen
Kebnekaise – 5/16/19 – Hamburg
? – 5/17/19 – London
Supersister – 5/19/19 – Utrecht
Earth & Fire – 5/21/19 – Groningen
Junipher Green – 5/22/19 – Leuven
early Scorpions – 5/23/19 – Hannover
Xhol Caravan – 5/24/19 – Wiesbaden
Hellhammer – 5/25/19 – Lausanne
Paul Chain – 5/29/19 – Bologna
PFM – 5/31/19 – Avellino
Difference – 6/28/19 – Trondheim
OK, I submit. I hear Rush influences in Motorpsycho. In fact, I am laughing after hearing Bent, I think, impersonate Geddy Lee after playing 'The Cuckoo' in London from the just-ending Crucible tour. "Now, we'd like to play side one from our recent album 'Hemispheres'. That was really funny!
